16 votes

Topic deleted by author

32 comments

  1. [15]
    NeoTheFox
    (edited )
    Link
    Maybe you would better off buying a laptop then? If you want to build a rig anyway I suggest going down the ryzen mini itx model - Ryzen CPUs 2XXX have embedded Vega GPUs, and that's a huge save,...

    Maybe you would better off buying a laptop then? If you want to build a rig anyway I suggest going down the ryzen mini itx model - Ryzen CPUs 2XXX have embedded Vega GPUs, and that's a huge save, because you don't have to buy a GPU, and GPUs are really expensive thanks to miners. And these Vega GPUs are decent for light gaming. My suggestion is:

    • AMD Ryzen 5 2400g (CPU + GPU), @Gyrfalcon corrected me on this, since 2500X has no GPU.
    • ASRock H110M-DVS R3.0 (Motherboard)

    And whatever cheap memory, cooler, psu and case you could get. Having an SSD is a huge plus, so maybe pick a smaller SSD over a huge HDD if you don't need a lot of space.
    Depending on where you live you can find DDR4 memory, PSU and an SSD would vary wildly in price so just try and pick the one that has decent reviews.

    PS: In order to get the motherboard to work you may need a BIOS update - most PC shops where I am would do it for you for free. Newer stock should have a newer BIOS, but YMMV

    10 votes
    1. [8]
      Gyrfalcon
      Link Parent
      Hey, two important things to note here. One, the R5 2600X has no integrated GPU. The only Ryzen models with iGPU (on desktop) are the R3 2200g, and the R5 2400g. Two, H110 is not a Ryzen...

      Hey, two important things to note here.

      One, the R5 2600X has no integrated GPU. The only Ryzen models with iGPU (on desktop) are the R3 2200g, and the R5 2400g.

      Two, H110 is not a Ryzen compatible chipset. @apoctr, you should be looking for an A320, B350, or X370 motherboard if you are okay with maybe needing to flash the BIOS, or a B450 or X470 motherboard if not. Overall, if you look for the AM4 socket, you should be okay.

      11 votes
      1. [7]
        NeoTheFox
        Link Parent
        Oh wait, really? Man I feel stupid right now. @apoctr, you should get a Ryzen 5 2400g then, my bad, I swear I thought all the 2XXX series had Vega in them.

        Oh wait, really? Man I feel stupid right now. @apoctr, you should get a Ryzen 5 2400g then, my bad, I swear I thought all the 2XXX series had Vega in them.

        2 votes
        1. Gyrfalcon
          Link Parent
          Ah no worries, it is a bit confusing with some having it and some not, especially when the Intel chips have all had them the last few years. APU is definitely the way to go with this kind of...

          Ah no worries, it is a bit confusing with some having it and some not, especially when the Intel chips have all had them the last few years. APU is definitely the way to go with this kind of budget though, great call there.

          5 votes
        2. [6]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. [4]
            pseudolobster
            Link Parent
            2 ram slots is fine. DDR4 comes in 16gb sticks, and 32gb really ought to be enough for anyone, for at least another 5 years anyway. Unless you plan on running several VMs at once or editing 4K...

            2 ram slots is fine. DDR4 comes in 16gb sticks, and 32gb really ought to be enough for anyone, for at least another 5 years anyway.

            Unless you plan on running several VMs at once or editing 4K video on the regular, 8gb now and upgrading to 16gb in the future is a perfectly cromulent plan.

            3 votes
            1. [3]
              NeoTheFox
              Link Parent
              Yes, but the problem here is that the article he linked suggest buying two 4GB pieces, and that makes an upgrade either a lot more expensive or impossible. So my suggestion is to either get one...

              Yes, but the problem here is that the article he linked suggest buying two 4GB pieces, and that makes an upgrade either a lot more expensive or impossible. So my suggestion is to either get one 8GB piece or a motherboard with 4 slots, whatever is cheaper.

              1 vote
              1. [2]
                pseudolobster
                Link Parent
                Yup, that's a great point. I'm just saying though, you can still fit a lot of ram into 2 DDR4 slots. I hear there are 64gb sticks available, but I'm not sure on compatibility. I was just looking...

                Yup, that's a great point. I'm just saying though, you can still fit a lot of ram into 2 DDR4 slots. I hear there are 64gb sticks available, but I'm not sure on compatibility. I was just looking at the MSI board from the guide and it says max 32gb, which is still a ton of ram for most purposes.

                So, 4 slots isn't a huge concern unless OP needs a shitload of ram for some reason. But yeah, get an 8GB stick.

                2 votes
                1. NeoTheFox
                  Link Parent
                  You can, but as a single stick gets bigger the value diminishes, so at some point having more slots is economically more viable, and don't forget that pairs of slots get to work in dual-channel...

                  You can, but as a single stick gets bigger the value diminishes, so at some point having more slots is economically more viable, and don't forget that pairs of slots get to work in dual-channel mode, so faster than a single stick. I totally get where you are coming from tho.

                  1 vote
          2. NeoTheFox
            Link Parent
            Since you are going for an SSD now I don't think you'll find a cheap mobo with both m.2 slot and 4 pieces of RAM. So having just 1 piece of 8GB RAM is probably cheaper, and AB350M Pro4 is ~75$ and...

            Since you are going for an SSD now I don't think you'll find a cheap mobo with both m.2 slot and 4 pieces of RAM. So having just 1 piece of 8GB RAM is probably cheaper, and AB350M Pro4 is ~75$ and has 4 RAM slots and an m.2 slot.

            1 vote
    2. [3]
      Diff
      Link Parent
      Hey how great are those embedded graphics? Any benchmarks? My gf is looking to build a cheap-as-possible rig for some gaming and that sounds really fantastic.

      Hey how great are those embedded graphics? Any benchmarks? My gf is looking to build a cheap-as-possible rig for some gaming and that sounds really fantastic.

      3 votes
      1. spctrvl
        Link Parent
        Not sure about the chip on the 2400G, but the one on the 2200G isn't bad. For light gaming at low settings at 1080p or below it should do the trick for most of the popular stuff like League, WoW,...

        Not sure about the chip on the 2400G, but the one on the 2200G isn't bad. For light gaming at low settings at 1080p or below it should do the trick for most of the popular stuff like League, WoW, and Overwatch. Benchmarks are everywhere, here's one.

        4 votes
      2. NeoTheFox
        Link Parent
        Here you go: userbenchmarks, and here is it running GTAV, you can find a lot of the "Game X on Vega 11" videos on youtube. I've linked you to the GTX750ti comparison because it feels to me like...

        Here you go: userbenchmarks, and here is it running GTAV, you can find a lot of the "Game X on Vega 11" videos on youtube. I've linked you to the GTX750ti comparison because it feels to me like this is pretty much a more modern equivalent to 750Ti, and you can still play most games with a 750Ti today.

        2 votes
    3. [4]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. 2c13b71452
        Link Parent
        I think you'd get better value from a used laptop off ebay. T420 is getting quite old. Something like T450 or T460 should be less than £400, and most come with an SSD. The newer Intel CPUs run...

        I think you'd get better value from a used laptop off ebay. T420 is getting quite old. Something like T450 or T460 should be less than £400, and most come with an SSD. The newer Intel CPUs run much cooler too. Get a dock for it to easily hook up to a monitor and then you don't have the small screen problem either. Having said all that, I get that it's fun to build your own.

        3 votes
      2. [2]
        NeoTheFox
        Link Parent
        Well if you would use Linux on it there is a great solution - buy a small SSD and use it as bcache device. I'm using a 120GB SSD split 60/60 - one partition is my system, the other 60 gigs is a...

        Well if you would use Linux on it there is a great solution - buy a small SSD and use it as bcache device. I'm using a 120GB SSD split 60/60 - one partition is my system, the other 60 gigs is a cache from my 2TB drive - and I'm getting an 86% cache hit ratio, so essentially it's like my whole 2TB drive is an SSD.
        I suggest using an SSD because SSD is the one single thing that would make your PC feel really fast, even with subpar specs.
        Also, the guide you've linked has problems with your intended use cases, since their CPU is pretty low-power it's a huge bottleneck, and since mini-ITX and micro-ATX MBs usually have just 2 DDR4 slots you probably shouldn't buy 2 4GB RAM modules and get one 8GB instead in order to be able to upgrade in the future. If you'll go the mini-ITX route it would be a very small and neat box.

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. NeoTheFox
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Yes, I mean it. The point about micro-ITX and micro-ATX is that they usually have 2 RAM slots. And the motherboard linked in the article has just 2 RAM slots as well. That means if you'll get two...

            Yes, I mean it. The point about micro-ITX and micro-ATX is that they usually have 2 RAM slots. And the motherboard linked in the article has just 2 RAM slots as well. That means if you'll get two 4GB RAM modules as the article suggest you will be stuck with 8GBs of RAM without a possible upgrade. And I think in a few years you would want to double your RAM, since these days software could eat right through it. cough Android Studion cough

            1 vote
  2. [2]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [2]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. vektor
        Link Parent
        Be aware of the conflict of interest there though. Logical Increments receives affiliate money through their amazon and newegg links. Take their info with a grain of salt. At least they don't take...

        Be aware of the conflict of interest there though. Logical Increments receives affiliate money through their amazon and newegg links. Take their info with a grain of salt.

        At least they don't take intel's money or anything. As far as we know that is.

        4 votes
  3. [8]
    pseudolobster
    Link
    That guide seems decent enough. Though, I'm going to suggest getting a 256GB SSD over a 2TB HDD. Unless you plan to store a ton of videos or games you're probably going to benefit more from the...

    That guide seems decent enough. Though, I'm going to suggest getting a 256GB SSD over a 2TB HDD. Unless you plan to store a ton of videos or games you're probably going to benefit more from the speed of an SSD. The hard drive access is still the biggest bottleneck on a PC, as the only interface that's slower is the internet. The easiest way to make a slow computer "feel" fast is by getting a fast SSD.

    The motherboard in that guide, the MSI B450M Pro M2 includes a M.2 slot for PCIe/NVMe SSDs. These are several times faster than SATA drives, so I'd really recommend getting one. The Samsung 960 Evo series is a good solid contender for the cheapest drive with super good performance. Here's the PCPartPicker link to that drive.

    4 votes
    1. Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      Hard to overstate the benefits of having an SSD as the primary OS drive. The performance difference is literally several orders of magnitude.

      Hard to overstate the benefits of having an SSD as the primary OS drive. The performance difference is literally several orders of magnitude.

      4 votes
    2. [3]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [2]
        spctrvl
        Link Parent
        You can just get both though. A 120GB SSD is only like $25.

        You can just get both though. A 120GB SSD is only like $25.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. spctrvl
            Link Parent
            Yeah, if you don't need lots and lots of storage, it might be better to just ditch the multi-drive setup and get a bigger ssd. You can always add another drive down the road if you find it lacking.

            Yeah, if you don't need lots and lots of storage, it might be better to just ditch the multi-drive setup and get a bigger ssd. You can always add another drive down the road if you find it lacking.

            3 votes
    3. [4]
      floppy
      Link Parent
      I would advise OP against this, as his needs for storage and data backup will not be served well by having 256GB available instead of 2TB.

      I would advise OP against this, as his needs for storage and data backup will not be served well by having 256GB available instead of 2TB.

      1 vote
      1. [3]
        pseudolobster
        Link Parent
        I get what you're saying, but I've got to point out: the goal of data backup can never be accomplished with one drive. For backup, you must copy your data to some other media. Another hard drive,...

        needs for storage and data backup

        I get what you're saying, but I've got to point out: the goal of data backup can never be accomplished with one drive. For backup, you must copy your data to some other media. Another hard drive, cloud storage, thumb drives, whatever. But if you're backing something up to the same drive, you're totally missing the whole point of backups.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          floppy
          Link Parent
          Yeah for sure, but still, OP should definitely not get a small disk either way. In fact he's got a decent budget. I built a pretty good PC a couple years ago on about $600-700, with an (AMD) 8...

          Yeah for sure, but still, OP should definitely not get a small disk either way. In fact he's got a decent budget. I built a pretty good PC a couple years ago on about $600-700, with an (AMD) 8 core 4GHz processor, 16GB of memory, a 750ti, and both a 120GB TLC SSD and a 3TB HDD. Since I was able to do that on less than $700 I think that OP could do pretty well on $500, and that's why there's no need for him to skip out on having mass storage.

          1. spit-evil-olive-tips
            Link Parent
            It's 2018, building a computer without a boot SSD is a war crime. It'll take awhile to fill up an SSD, and by that time prices will have dropped further and would probably put a larger...

            It's 2018, building a computer without a boot SSD is a war crime. It'll take awhile to fill up an SSD, and by that time prices will have dropped further and would probably put a larger spinning-rust drive within OP's price range.

  4. [5]
    spctrvl
    Link
    The build linked is decent. I'd recommend adding a boot SSD if you're going to be using it as a desktop, for Linux 120GB is sufficient. If you aren't doing more than light gaming, the integrated...

    The build linked is decent. I'd recommend adding a boot SSD if you're going to be using it as a desktop, for Linux 120GB is sufficient. If you aren't doing more than light gaming, the integrated GPU in the 2200G should be more than powerful enough. I would try and make sure you have at least DDR4 2666 RAM though, Zen sees significant gains from fast RAM, and more so because the GPU will be running off system RAM. And never ever cheap out on the power supply. A poorly designed one can blow and take all your components with it. Not to mention they're also likely to be inefficient as all hell when they are working, so even if it doesn't blow you'll pay back the difference in your power bill.

    Regarding Linux support, I haven't used it extensively on the 2200G, but I did a build with one last week that ran a bootable puppy Linux USB just fine. For long term use, I'm not aware of any problems with CPU support and my Linux experience with the RX 580 in my main build has never been less than flawless. Still, might bear to do some additional research, especially since I have no clue about BSD compatibility.

    2 votes
    1. [4]
      NeoTheFox
      Link Parent
      Vega GPUs work really well on Linux - the drivers are open-source, meaning that other OS can just re-use a lot of the code. Ryzen CPUs with Vega graphics work really, really well on Linux.

      Vega GPUs work really well on Linux - the drivers are open-source, meaning that other OS can just re-use a lot of the code. Ryzen CPUs with Vega graphics work really, really well on Linux.

      1 vote
      1. [3]
        spctrvl
        Link Parent
        I figured that would be the case, the open drivers for the GCN cards are pretty killer. It's a pleasant change from the Nvidia cards I used to run.

        I figured that would be the case, the open drivers for the GCN cards are pretty killer. It's a pleasant change from the Nvidia cards I used to run.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          NeoTheFox
          Link Parent
          To be fair, I still use an Nvidia card that I got before AMD became cool. And Vega being a bad card with no way to get it made me hold out at least until Navi for an upgrade. I want a high-end GPU...

          To be fair, I still use an Nvidia card that I got before AMD became cool. And Vega being a bad card with no way to get it made me hold out at least until Navi for an upgrade. I want a high-end GPU so it could last for a long time and right now AMD has nothing to offer in this regard, there is no competition with Nvidia in a high-end sector. But seeing how 2080 is not a huge improvement maybe Navi would at least catch up, and then I'm sold.

          2 votes
          1. spctrvl
            Link Parent
            Yeah, none of the RTX cards seem to be a great value proposition. 20% more performance for 30% more money! Thanks, pass. Kinda sad that after being stuck with Pascal for over two years, this is...

            Yeah, none of the RTX cards seem to be a great value proposition. 20% more performance for 30% more money! Thanks, pass.

            Kinda sad that after being stuck with Pascal for over two years, this is the best they could offer, but at least it gives AMD an in.

            3 votes
  5. floppy
    Link
    If you get an SSD, I recommend that you stay away from cheap SSDs, especially TLC SSDs. Initially a cheap SSD will give good performance, but they can degrade over time. A higher quality SLC SSD...

    If you get an SSD, I recommend that you stay away from cheap SSDs, especially TLC SSDs. Initially a cheap SSD will give good performance, but they can degrade over time. A higher quality SLC SSD will last longer without as much of a performance drop.

    On my PC, I have a 120GB OCZ Trion SSD (which in hindsight, I would have swapped with a better SSD like a Samsung EVO) and I also had a 3TB, 5200RPM WD Red HDD. I used the SSD for my OS, and the HDD for pretty much everything else. If you can, get a larger size SSD, so you can also store games and program files there for faster speeds.

    2 votes
  6. [2]
    aphoenix
    Link
    One thing to consider that I don't think anyone else has brought up is this: do you actually need an optical drive? The last two machines I built do not have one, and I haven't missed it at all.

    One thing to consider that I don't think anyone else has brought up is this: do you actually need an optical drive?

    The last two machines I built do not have one, and I haven't missed it at all.

    1 vote
    1. [2]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. aphoenix
        Link Parent
        Good call. I think the only other advice I'd have is some you're already taking (the SSD stuff above). Good luck! I hope you enjoy your build!

        Good call. I think the only other advice I'd have is some you're already taking (the SSD stuff above).

        Good luck! I hope you enjoy your build!

        1 vote